If you havent read the story yet, I highly recommend pausing this, and giving it a read first, because I try not to go over too much of the same territory in my interview with her. Ryan Grim: This weeks guest on Deconstructed is Mackenzie Fierceton, who was the subject of a recent story in The New Yorker. Ultimately, she lost her Rhodes Scholarship, and Penn withheld her masters degree, demanding a letter of apology. Instead, I want to talk more about what this says about the system, that something so seemingly irrational could be produced by this system, and actually could be predicted to be produced by this system in some ways. She expressed some concern to Penn staff that if she won, the media attention might incite her mother and her family to attack her reputation, and expressed on a form she filed with Penn as part of the process a concern of hers that FGLI students such as herself were "pressured to be someone they were not amidst their application process." Is that your experience with it as well? Fine. Her junior year at Whitfield, a prestigious prep school, Mackenzie showed up to school one day in a terrible state. Mackenzie Fierceton (born Mackenzie Terrell on August 9, 1997; later Mackenzie Morrison, [1] : 63-64, 86 ) is an American activist and graduate student currently studying at Oxford University. [22], In the New Yorker article, Fierceton and others criticized Penn for its use of not only her story but another recent FGLI Rhodes awardee as poverty porn, suggesting the university had turned on her when it learned she had actually come from a privileged, affluent background and thus did not fit the narrative of having grown up in foster care recounted in its news release and the accompanying Inquirer article. Then the University of Pennsylvania accused her of. How did you get to school? We started building this, and this is exactly who we built it for. The Chronicle reports that although she spent her final year of high school in foster care, the student had grown up in an affluent suburb of St. Louis with her mother, a radiologist, and attended private schools. Just a quick circling back, Im actually not sure if it was her who first reached out or if it was General Counsel Wendy White, because I later found out that they had a phone call about 36 hours after the article came out and seemed to talk pretty extensively, and then there were a lot of emails that happened. But the acclaim quickly devolved into acrimony as the university and the Rhodes Trust began questioning aspects of Fiercetons backstory. Like you said, I was called into a meeting. After her mother left, Fierceton got out of bed, found a spare set of keys and drove herself to school. How many people kind of fit that category that you interacted with, and how many kind of fit closer to your category, not just in your own interactions, but also in your research? There were definitely, Im sure. He explained that Morrison had had no prior criminal record, Fierceton's complaints about her mother's boyfriend and prescription drug abuse had been unsubstantiated, her cousin had witnessed no abuse while living with the Morrisons at a time prior to the incident, and he had learned that Fierceton "had regular temper tantrums, beyond the normal range for an adolescent". It was: Shes a spoiled little brat. Which as Im sure youve learned since is a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of poverty . Fierceton. Penn has released its hold on a master of social work degree from Mackenzie Fierceton the former Rhodes Scholarship recipient who filed a lawsuit against the University following its investigation into allegations that she falsified her status as a first-generation, low-income student and survivor of abuse. And then as the different internships, and then I went to get my masters in social work and all of this happened, I started to see that continue in different capacities while I was in different roles, seeing that theme in this relationship between foster care and the criminal justice system. As a result she withdrew from the Rhodes Scholarship; a sympathetic Penn faculty member has paid her Oxford tuition in its stead.[2]. And I think said something along the lines of there were things missing and it was distorted. Her mother was a doctor and Fierceton attended a prep school, but she was. When I came to Penn and saw all of these students who were living that life, there was a sense of community and solidarity amongst us, which was very powerful for me because I just felt so out of place. Thats the reality of it, but we dont want to think of it that way. I was a teenager and I was in the hospital and I didnt have any perspective. Thank you so much for having me. So they didnt ask about that in this meeting. I identify with the FGLI umbrella term and definitely being a low-income student, but Ive never really called myself a standalone first-generation. [2], The next morning, when Fierceton awoke, Morrison told her she was taking her car keys and telling the school she was sick. And I think that she kind of encompassed a lot of the stereotypes that people, and also the Penn administrators have about what FGLI students are when in reality, those of us who are part of the community know that theres so many shapes and sizes of FGLI students. Yeah. And at the time I was like: Why what? [2], A week later, Fierceton received an email asking her to attend a meeting over Zoom with Winkelstein. Fierceton's mother's supporters have maintained that her daughter was an emotionally manipulative girl who injured herself and fabricated other aspects of the abuse in order to become a more appealing candidate for admission to an Ivy League college such as the University of Pennsylvania. And please go and leave us a rating or a review it helps people find the show. Fierceton's life story, as well as her self-identification as a "first generation" college student, came under scrutiny by the university when an anonymous email alleged that Fierceton was not. [2], Almost three months later, The New Yorker ran a longer article about Fierceton, which had taken the magazine eight months to report and fact-check. Because that was one of the ones that really blew my mind. Is that just an interpretation or did they say anything that suggested to you that the fact that you had gone to a private school and grown up in an upper-middle-class situation meant that you could never at any point consider yourself low-income? Again, this is obviously secondhand, because I was unconscious. Why would I do that? RG: Instead, I want to talk more about what this says about the system, that something so seemingly irrational could be produced by this system, and actually could be predicted to be produced by this system in some ways. And it started with, this paragraph-and-a-half of waking up in the hospital and then, like you said, looking at my face, not recognizing myself, and kind of describing what I felt like and what the room looked like. Right. And I suspected that it was about this anonymous email. Yes. [2], In March 2014, Fierceton began keeping a secret diary[a] documenting her life and her ruminations on her situation, writing it in her bedroom closet by the light of her phone and hiding it behind a ventilation panel. Betsy Reed is The Intercepts editor in chief. And even now, The New Yorker quotes a lot from my childhood journals describing my abuse. [2], In July the OSC concluded its investigation with a 31-page report sent to provost Wendell Pritchett examining Fierceton's background more extensively than the Rhodes Trust had. Theyre not on a website. Picture: University of Pennsylvania/Instagram. And that felt very powerful in an institution where the overwhelming majority of people are coming from two-parent households, extremely wealthy, like a whole nother level of wealth that I have really ever seen, in my life in terms of just around me, like the 1 percent to the 0.001 percent. MF: So those questions really came later. And if you havent already, please subscribe to the show so you can hear it every week. RG: Did they make that threat in writing or was that . Mackenzie Fierceton (born Mackenzie Terrell on August 9, 1997; later Mackenzie Morrison,[1]:6364,86) is an American activist and graduate student currently studying at Oxford University. In May 2022, after a lengthy article in The New Yorker drew widespread media attention to Fierceton's story, the university dropped the charge and awarded her the degree. After her graduation summa cum laude, political science professor Anne Norton invited Fierceton to stay with her and her partner in their large house in Northwest Philadelphia for as long as she needed to in order to complete her master's over the next year. "Fuck thatI don't have [a family]" she said later. Its just so obvious that you fit the criteria for low-income, but it seems like they feel like you dont fit it in the spirit of how they want it. I was in this private school with a lot of upper-middle class or wealthy white students. And then she hired a law firm and eventually they were doing their own investigation for several months. And I just want to read this for people. Mhmm. And now they have to face the fact that someone who looks like them, who shares all these identities with them, could be the source of all of this harm. MF: Yeah. "I really don't have words,'" she told a mentor at the Penn Women's Center. And eventually they filed a big wrongful death lawsuit in August 2020. And I kind of felt like things were resolved until the next week when there was more [laughs] more downhill event. Then the Philly paramedics couldnt figure out how to get to the building and then they couldnt get me out. "While it is possible that [she] was the cause of the alleged injuries," she wrote a month afterward, "the court cannot make that finding by a preponderance of the evidence based on the evidence presented." If youre an independent student, then you should check yes to both boxes. Enough bruises? She was diagnosed with post-concussion syndrome and released after three weeks. If we review your medical records, are we going to see you had broken ribs and facial injuries? Asked by the school's wellness director (who later told police she had seen insulting texts from Morrison on Fierceton's phone) about the reasons for the injuries, Fierceton said that she was "clumsy" but did not offer any details. [2] Fierceton and her mentor reconstructed the conversation and transcribed it; the university has claimed it is inaccurate but the mentor stands by it. And like: Why are you considered an independent student? And with that, like you said, notion of: Well, theres no way that you went to private school and all of this could have still happened, or that you could be low-income now and this idea that socioeconomic status is permanent. There was, yes, disagreement, because I said there was blood in my hair in the essay, they said there wasnt enough blood or there wasnt blood or something. [1]:115 As to her previous involvement with the child welfare system, Penn says Fierceton told them she was not certain, but she was referring either to the guardian ad litem appointed for her during her parents' divorce or an earlier incident when she and her biological parents were still living in Connecticut. And, honestly, first-generation is never something Ive really identified with fully. Is it as well explored territory as a school-to-prison pipeline? And there was also the added threat that they would report me to the federal government for wire fraud if I didnt, again, withdraw from the Rhodes and sign this NDA. MF: Yeah. Fierceton grew up in a wealthy community and attended an elite private school in a St. Louis suburb. Because Im not under any illusion that Im the typical foster kid. [2], Wendy Ruderman, a reporter for The Philadelphia Inquirer, called Fierceton to interview her for a story about the scholarship. One home, during her junior year of high school, was so "toxic" and crammed with other foster kids that she left for weeks at a time, sleeping each night on a carousel of couches at the homes of various friends, she said. So now Im looking at one American city and one English city and comparing the experiences of youth who crossed over from the child welfare system to the criminal justice system in both of those cities and kind of how the geopolitical environment and local policies and practices might impact the rate of youth crossing over and their experiences.Then its going to be a qualitative study in just really trying to understand their experiences from their voices, which is something that I often find missing from research. MF: So to me it was pretty clear that it likely came from them. And eventually they filed a big wrongful death lawsuit in August 2020. And so they had to see some benefit to them in doing this. And I ended up reading the comments, and the comments were just horrendous. And I think its true. MF: But yeah, that, I guess, just one point of clarification that I recently, in the last few months, just found out about. It didnt have any facts of the case. So, yes. And what happened after that? University of Pennsylvania student Mackenzie Fierceton had her Rhodes Scholarship revoked and her master's degree withheld after allegations surfaced that she was lying about her. And we do know for sure that she was in touch with the university. I want to read from The New Yorker article again, it says: The Web site of Penn First Plus, a university program founded in 2018 to support F.G.L.I. Of keys and drove herself to school one day in a wealthy community and attended elite... A recent story in the hospital and I didnt have any perspective lot of class. 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